My favorite person is back on the podcast to talk about the topic we’re all curious about—parenting. My husband Matt joins me in this episode to continue our conversation on marriage and relationships, but exploring what the Enneagram has done in one of our favorite roles as parents! Listen in as we both share our own experiences, how we felt like we were failing in parenthood before the Enneagram, and how not only our relationships with our kids has improved, but their relationships with each other have too!
Welcome to The Enneagram Girl Podcast, hosted by Alicia Larkey, a Certified Enneagram Life Coach & Relationship Coach. If you feel overwhelmed in your relationships and want to start feeling seen, heard, validated, and hopeful, you’re in the right place. Through thoughtful exploration and explanation of your Enneagram type, you’ll become more confident in your behaviors, emotions, intentions, and reactions.
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Make sure you listen to part 1 of this conversation in Season 1 Episode 2.
Do The Work for Yourself
If you’re ready for a more fulfilling relationship, but your spouse isn’t on board to do the work, you can work on yourself first. you have a choice and your own happiness and your own fulfillment. This is not to say that the responsibility of your relationship is all on you or that the challenges you face are all your fault. It’s actually the opposite of blame.
This is your reminder that when we clean up our own side of the street, our perspective changes on everything. In other words, putting in the effort yourself to become more aware of what you bring into the relationship will help impact the relationship more than just your partner changing their bad qualities.
So let it start with us. Observe the energy that you are bringing into your conversations and your experiences as a couple.
How Your Enneagram Type Impacts Your Relationship
As you begin to grow yourself, you can also learn more about you and your partner through the Enneagram. Knowing your partner’s Enneagram number can help you understand why they do the things they do—realizing that it’s not a direct relation to you.
For example, the way Matt processes things is different than I do—because we’re different Enneagram types. Understanding Enneagram types is like getting a map of the other person: partner, friend, children, etc.
How The Enneagram Improved Our Parenting
When it came to parenting our kids, we felt like we were raising them the same way, doing the right things by them, yet each child reacted and responded differently to our parenting. It felt like we were getting so many things wrong—especially in the pre-teen and teenage phase.
We realized that our kids all three have different Enneagram types—which allowed us to interpret their personalities and responses. Not only did we need to know their types, but we also needed to understand our own types to better build solid relationships with them.
Learn about the Enneagram as a whole, so you can learn your type and potential types your children are!
When to Test Your Children for The Enneagram
One thing that is important to note is that testing your child for their Enneagram type isn’t meant to label them, but to help you better learn how to relate to them. So many parents are hesitant to test their child’s Enneagram type too early since they’re still developing, so let’s talk about how we navigated this!
As parents of three children, our advice is to start learning more about you first before you ever start wondering about your children’s Enneagram. Do not type your kids before you type and understand yourself. Before you do all the work on yourself, understand how all your own traumas and childhood experiences, your beliefs, your motivation, and how that all impacts your parenting. That’s where you should start research and book a session with a coach or a counselor.
The end goal isn’t to find out their type—you do not get to tell your kids who they are, they’ll tell you that in their own time.
“When you know better, you do better.” Maya Angelou
After our kids learned their Enneagram types and each other’s they began to better understand each other and be better support systems for one another.
In sharing these stories and experiences, my hope is that future generations will have to tools to work through relationships with each other, creating healthier familial relationships so they won’t have to spend decades healing.
Connect with Alicia
Email: alicialarkey@gmail.com
Review the Transcript:
Alicia Larkey
hi friends welcome back to the Enneagram girl podcast. I’m your host, Alicia Larkey. I cannot wait for you to hear today’s episode. Here’s a hint. My guest today is my favorite person in the whole world. We’re going to share a few secrets, some laughter, and some action steps you can take to build a strong relationship so that you are living a deeper, more stable and fulfilling life. Plus, you’ll get to listen to some of our stories from the trenches of parenting, our proven tips to keeping intimacy alive and learn how to fight for your marriage, especially on those days that it’s hardest to do. So are you ready to meet today’s guest? Then let’s get started. Hi, friends. Welcome to the Enneagram girl podcast. I’m your host, Alicia Larkey. On this podcast, we explore all things Enneagram and relationships, from friendships, to dating to marriage, and parenting, and everything else in between. As a certified Enneagram, life coach and marriage coach, I’ll help you understand why and how your Enneagram type affects all the relationships in your life, and how to improve them, including the one with yourself. For full show notes and resources of each episode, head to Enneagram girl.com. Now, let’s get started. Okay, friends, I have been waiting for this moment with you for so long, because I’m about to introduce you to my favorite person in the whole world. So drumroll please. Here he is my husband, Matt. We have been married for 25 years. So trust me when I say we might know a thing or two about how to get it right in marriage. Hi, honey, welcome to the show.
Matt Larkey
I love I cannot believe you talk to me an introvert into doing this. You notice Enneagram nines aren’t exactly looking for crowds to speak in front of or especially share thoughts with.
Alicia Larkey
Don’t worry, I’m not going to embarrass you too much. And I’m totally going to respect your nine this other than maybe asking you your deepest, darkest secrets about your feelings about our marriage.
Matt Larkey
Okay, well, thanks for having me. That was a lot of fun. I’ll see everybody later.
Alicia Larkey
Now Now get back here, we are going to do this because it’s going to be awesome. And I think most importantly, it’s really going to help other people out there who are wanting to have a long term marriage and also understand how Enneagram types come into play when it comes to relationships. So we’re going to talk about many things today along with what it’s like for you as an Enneagram, nine with a wing one to be married to me an Enneagram two with a strong wing three, we’ll talk about how we are total opposites in so many ways, like in our subtypes and our conflict style and other areas. But also, I’m so excited to share how we have actually stayed madly in love since we were 19 years old. And we’re kind of pushing our late 40s Now, so are you ready for this?
Matt Larkey
Oh, definitely. I’m ready. Let’s do this.
Alicia Larkey
Okay, so what inspired me to bring Matt on the podcast and talk about all these vulnerable things like marriage and how our relationship works and what has what we’ve learned together and what has worked for us and what’s been a hard struggle, and most importantly, especially how to build a strong, reliable, safe marriage for over two decades. Well, it was first inspired by a conversation that we actually had back on our 20 year wedding anniversary trip along the east coast where we drove through about five states. And you know, the funny part is, that was like five years ago now, can you believe that?
Matt Larkey
Gosh, I know it feels like yesterday, but yet, it also feels like 20 years ago, all at the same time.
Alicia Larkey
I know. It’s like bash the years really do fly by. And I agree. We were at one of our favorite vacation resorts. And if you know us, you know what vacation resort that is. And we had just spent the best day reminiscing about our entire 20 years together in marriage and what our personal relationship has been like, we had so much fun running around the Magic Kingdom. There’s your hint for those of you are wondering our favorite vacation, feeling like two big kids at heart that we both really are. Both of us are very playful and kids at heart. And I just felt so proud to be celebrating this milestone of 20 years together, especially with this great man that I married to it is such a big thing in this day and age but for both of us. It wasn’t just about the number 20 or are, how amazing that really is, it was so much more about the fact that we really are happy together. And we really do still like each other as much as we love each other too. It felt so good to still be so in love, and frankly obsessed with one another. After all of this time, our chemistry and our intimacy, it really honestly just keeps getting better year after year. And I’m not just saying that Matt is going to be very honest to we’re both sharing this honestly, we both really make a big effort in our marriage and towards our intimacy and towards our chemistry and towards our friendship and those things super matter in such big ways. And they just take commitment, we commit to spending time together, bridging our marriage when the gap gets divided, because honestly, our our marriage has hard struggles too, and the gap gets divided. But we really make that effort. And I am guessing you would agree with this, too. With this assessment.
Matt Larkey
Definitely. I think I think it matters a lot. I love the way you put that I thought that was perfect. It was so special to be celebrating 20 years together at that time. And I see how society sees that is like a big accomplishment. But I just see it as this is exactly what I wanted to be doing. And this is where I want to be. I’m just living the life. I always wanted to live. I’m not just being dragged through marriage for 20 years and thinking yay, I made it, you know?
Alicia Larkey
Yeah, yeah, I totally. It is funny, because I think a lot of people feel that way. And I know not every couple who reaches this type of a marriage milestone. 1020 30 years in, is still in love. And that really makes my heart sad. And we’re here today to help couples try to avoid that from happening to them. Right. The years of resentment the years of the blame game. Absolutely. Yeah, we get it. It’s hard. It’s especially hard in some seasons, when you have kids and bills and all the things that can pile up in a marriage. There are hard years, there are hard months, there are hard weeks and hard days, between navigating all that jobs, taking care of your home loving our pets, even. It’s all a lot of responsibility in balancing all the things in a shared life together can be really hard, and especially when you’re with somebody together for a super long time, right? I mean,
Matt Larkey
I’m scratching at the door right now. Right? One of the kids one of the pets.
Alicia Larkey
Yeah, one of the pets Exactly. And like marriage is such hard work. But I know we both agree on this. It is such valuable work. It is the most important work that you and I do. And we have several businesses, and we have three children. And we have families and community and other things that we love and become a part of. But we both agree. Our marriage is the top of every list in our life, I know you would agree with us.
Matt Larkey
I don’t think the rest of that stuff really matters. If you aren’t putting the time in your relationship and your marriage isn’t what it should be. It affects everything.
Alicia Larkey
And it’s, I think, to what we both have realized through the years is it’s also so much more rewarding than any other relationship in our lives. It really is like we we love our kids. Like they’re, there’s no two parents who love their kids more than us. I know all parents would say that. But I’m just saying like, if our marriage isn’t good, and healthy and stable, it affects them too. So it has to be super rewarding. And especially when you put it as your priority, you’re gonna feel like that you’re gonna feel like it’s rewarding. And I’m not saying it’s easy. I promise you. I’m not saying any of this is easy. But I am saying and I know Matt is saying, This is so worth it. This is not our practice life, we only get one try at this life, all of us. That means you mean that everybody, which means your marriage, it’s not a rough draft. If you’re miserable, and your marriage is miserable, and you just stay that way. That’s not okay. It’s not a way to live. And it doesn’t have to stay that way. Just because it’s been a feeling that way. I get it, I get resentment and blame and all the other things, but it doesn’t have to stay like this. I really, really want and hope that every single one of you listening right now will really hear this. You deserve to be thriving, both in your marriage and as an individual. So I’m going to repeat that one more time. You deserve to be thriving, both in your marriage and as an individual. To do that though, you have to grow together. You have to laugh together. You have to make the efforts to like each other and find commonalities and shared experiences, and create memories together, you have to do things together. And most importantly, you need to start learning how to understand yourself, and what you are bringing into the relationship, not just what your partner is or isn’t doing. I just really want you to hear me out on this. Don’t waste this one life that you get to live by blaming the other person in your relationship for everything that’s going wrong. And I know that’s really hard to do. Matt, you would agree with that, right? Oh, absolutely. Yeah,
Matt Larkey
sorry. I was mesmerized there by you talking. I just kind of got caught listening. I forgot. I’m supposed to chime in.
Alicia Larkey
Yeah, trust me, I get it, I get that sometimes your partner is the one who is contributing to the challenging parts of the relationship at that time. Sometimes that’s mad, sometimes that’s me, sometimes. And sometimes it’s neither one of us, right? It’s just life. It’s, it’s the kids did something at school, and now you know, we’re cranky, or we’re in a bad mood, or retired or something hurts. You know, sometimes your spouse does something that is truly annoying, or it’s hurtful, or, frankly, straight up bananas. But how you react to those things will that’s when it becomes your responsibility to. And it’s so important to realize that you have the choice to work on that, to improve it, to change it and to better your relationship. Now, it can help, or it can hurt the argument, and therefore it hurts your marriage. So I don’t know, would you agree like kind of on what I’m saying? Yeah, no, I
Matt Larkey
think you put that perfectly. I agree with every word Ditto. I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Alicia Larkey
So I got on my little soapbox there. But I really like my whole purpose of spending the last year working on this podcast and wanting to share this so much with with anybody who needs this or is listening to this or can take any piece of this is, is really to help you guys. Like we really do care. We both serve in different capacities in our community, but we really believe in helping couples. So I’m gonna get back on track to the night we were talking about on our trip where I asked you, what do you think are the key things that couples should do in their relationship that leads to kind of a thriving not even kind of to a purposeful, thriving, stable, happy and healthier relationship or marriage, you had such great points or tips or whatever you would call it that night. We’re I loved the things that you were sharing. There are there are people listening, who I know, would love to hear from a husbands point of view, because we don’t often get to hear that on podcast, and especially someone like you who actually does invest time in our marriage, and energy and effort into our marriage. And you you work on our marriage and you care deeply. I know it’s it’s top of your list, too. So that’s why I really wanted to have you on and Have you have you share your experience at getting it right. And I think that this will help all kinds of people from newlyweds to engage couples or dating couples or couples who are decades into their marriage like us. So back to this question, what are your best tips for getting it right and marriage?
Matt Larkey
Well, both. Thank you for saying that. And that’s a that was a really big setup. No pressure here. All right. So I what I remember was the first thing that came to my mind that day. And I think it’s so important is that people need to remember that marriage is supposed to be forever. Like I haven’t met anyone on their wedding day who was expecting to be divorced, like you just don’t, you’re not expecting that. So you You both must go into the marriage deciding that this is forever, no matter what it it’s a decision you have to make. I think unfortunately, so many young people that get married, they get married just because they think they’ve been dating the appropriate amount of time. And now they’re at the appropriate age. So the logical next step is, well, I guess I’m just supposed to marry this person, right? But then they don’t change their mindset. So they go on to treat marriage, like it’s a continual continuation of dating with an option for leaving. So they got that one foot out the door. They keep thinking, Well, I can end this if it doesn’t work out. Or if something goes wrong, it makes them think, Oh, I guess this just wasn’t meant to be. It’s like they think there’s some big mystical force of meant to be versus not meant to be as if we all don’t have the choice to make an effort to continue working on ourselves in addition to the relationship Yes. So they essentially go into the marriage with one foot already out the door. Like I said, that cannot be your mindset like this is my wife or this is my husband. wedding vows mean something and they still do Who, even and especially decades into marriage, and sometimes that’s when we most need that reminder. Knowing that this marriage is forever, it will likely make you softer and arguments while at least sometimes, and make you more likely to forgive. Yeah. And it helps you build that mindset that you have to work through this, you have no choice but to make an effort. Think of it like, I’m not going anywhere, and she’s not going anywhere. So in that moment, when you have that decision to make, that is one of the biggest differences between successful marriages and unsuccessful marriages.
Alicia Larkey
Oh, my gosh, I Can we all just take a second to receive that like, wow, I there’s so many things. I love that you just said,
Matt Larkey
What did I say I blocked out there for a second.
Alicia Larkey
I know that I think that’s the longest you’ve talked in like, three months,
Matt Larkey
I’m gonna go take a nap now.
Alicia Larkey
I love I especially love how you were talking about choice. And the choice to make an effort. And especially also you said something along the lines about when you have that decision to make I like how you set that up when you were saying, I’m not going anywhere, and she’s not going anywhere. So you have a decision to make, it brings it back to choice. And it’s exactly why I wanted to have you on the podcast because I know we both deeply believe that same fundamental thing in marriage,
Matt Larkey
those moments are so pivotal, you know, that moment that you have that decision to make that’s so pivotal that can make the difference.
Alicia Larkey
Yeah, and I just also, I just always love hearing things from your perspective. And in your words, it just always you just say things, you know differently than me. But we both just again, we just have this protection of marriage and other people’s marriage, I know that we both love to help help other people in their marriage if they want and if they come to us. So getting to share your perspective and your words, just kind of with my, my followers, my listeners, whatever you whatever it’s called my listeners, even if there’s only really like 10 of you out there. I know that having Matt share this is incredibly special to me, and I hope it will resonate and help impact one of you guys. And I also know that having Matt as a happily married man share his wisdom is super special. Because again, we do get to hear there are definitely some incredible men out there who are podcasters but sharing on marriage, you know, it’s few and far between. It’s definitely not as massive as you know, the women’s industry and podcast in and talking about relationships. I’m I feel this is just so special. And I love hearing your perspective. So
Matt Larkey
if it’s just 10 Well, we just have to help one, right? Yes, we hope
Alicia Larkey
even even if parts and pieces of this are resonating with different people, they’re just, there’s just so many movies and TV shows that portray men, especially ones who are in longtime marriages as unhappy or deprived or tied down, which I think is what’s making so many younger couples believe that it’s just, this is how it is in marriage. And that’s just so untrue. I know that even especially as a wedding photographer, Matt and I are wedding photographers also and have been for I think, like seven or eight years now. And we get to kind of mentor some of our couples who we become close to and friends with. And you know, getting to share this with them hey guys don’t ever settle for this is just how it is. It’s never how it is Matt and I are, you know, gonna be three decades into this thing in a couple of years. And it’s it’s not just how it is. It’s how we make it. marriage can be deeply fulfilling. It is also I would say one of the greatest growth spaces you can have. And I’m gonna say that again, because I don’t think that gets hurt enough. I think there are a lot of Instagram posts out there with people who aren’t even married, saying like, Oh, don’t get married because then you can’t grow. I’ve actually grown so much since again, we were 19 years old when we got married. I’ve watched Matt I get a lot be alongside Matt and watching his own personal growth and because we create that safe space for each other to grow individually, but to also grow together. It really does just enhance everything so much more. It’s a really special learning space. And again, going back to how rewarding it is. It’s so rewarding. We have built years and years and years of memories and triumphs and successes together. And I’m not saying this to be like haha look at this. I’m really telling you that because I deeply believe that you also can have this if you would tune out the noise and tune into your Self. Another great benefit too is it can help you marriage healthy marriage can help you heal from your own childhood pains and traumas. It’s done that for us, it can be a safe place to learn new and healthy ways to get through conflict and to break unhealthy patterns together, frankly. So do you remember that thing that we read recently? And I don’t remember where we saw it. So I wish I could. I wish I could quote it exactly. But it said, having a long term marriage is like having someone who is a witness to your life. Yeah,
Matt Larkey
I remember that. Yeah. That was perfect. Yeah, it’s,
Alicia Larkey
it’s so special. And I remember it just stopped me in my tracks. Like I smiled so big. And I was like, Honey, you have to hear this. Just, gosh, a witness to your life. Like how special is that. And it’s so true. You and I have become witnesses to watching each other grow up from being 19 year old kids into becoming generally healthy, happy, late 40. Somethings right, somewhere around there, somewhere around there. And what a gift it is because I never had thought of it like before. And I know we both feel there’s a lot of really special sweet spots in marriage. And I just think that that’s it’s one more incredible blessing on top of it. And plus, yeah, plus, we get to be each other’s biggest cheerleaders. So and you know, a soft place to fall on the hard days, which is just one of the greatest benefits, the times we get to really pick each other up when we’re individually having a rough time in something else in our individual lives. So there’s almost nothing more rewarding to that than me. And especially as an Enneagram two who is used to being a cheerleader, for the people in my life. It’s so nice having my own cheerleader and having especially you as a cheerleader, and I love getting to be yours. So I know, I know, I’m going off here, but back to your tips. And also, I just wanted to tap back into you guys who are listening right now, please know that you get to expect more from your relationship. But it starts with expecting more from yourself by searching for these qualities. And these, these commitments in someone you’re even dating, if you’re dating, whether you’re looking for a partner, or you already are married, no matter if it’s been one year or 25 years, you get to choose to create a good marriage. It’s a choice that Matt and I are making. Year after year, the responsibility is not just on your partner, you have to continue to seek your own growth as an individual, because that’s really the biggest contributor to your marriage. To Yeah, to our marriage. It’s not it’s not doing the dishes, or the roles that we each playing in marriage. Like I’m the mom, he’s the dad. It’s it’s how you show up and how you’re communicating to your spouse to your partner, how you’re handling conflict with each other. And, and trust me, I’m here to say we get it wrong all the time in handling conflict. But we continue to show effort that we love the other person and that we really want to get it right the next time. Even if we got it wrong this time. Okay, sorry, honey, I got I got on my soapbox there. I’m just so passionate about changing the minds of people who believe otherwise, they they need to know there’s a choice. And I feel like a lot of people don’t that they have the power to choose. And that they can make a different starting right now starting today. Okay, so sorry. Here’s your turn. Get back to your tip. Sorry.
Matt Larkey
No, I totally agree with you. And I think it starts from the mindset of, I’m in this forever. So I also want to make this good for myself, selfishly, in addition to making it good for you. So another thing that I’ll say that is contributed to our strong marriage is keeping that romance and intimacy alive. Like, don’t just expect the romance to just happen. It’s actually work and effort you have to put in regularly, despite how you might be feeling in any given moment. You can’t just do it when everything is going great. Like the moments you feel so in love. Well, that’s easy. The real gestures are in the moments when it’s the hardest. Or you’re the busiest or you’ve had a rough couple of days. Sometimes a romantic gesture in those moments can mean more than anything else. Truth bomb. Like just a few days ago, I remember we were having a difficult couple of days. And I was in the middle of doing yard work. And I just decided to instantly stop and ask you out to breakfast. And you immediately said yes. And even though it was a simple thing like grabbing food, I could tell that meant a lot to both of us that the other one had some quality time and just to be together. We both needed that reconnection and that’s what I mean by romance. It’s not always buying the flowers or setting up a date night out or making those big grand gestures. It’s about making the other person feel loved at a moment when maybe they’re not feeling so loved. Yeah. So if you guys are having a hard time right now and not getting along, don’t just say, Well, I’m gonna plan a date night out this weekend, do something that is simple and immediate. I think the longer that that disconnect lingers, the more your hearts can harden towards one another, or the contempt can build up. So just just come up with something small like, like, stop what you’re doing in that moment and say, Hey, you want to watch our favorite show together or go get something to eat? Or I love you so much, and I can’t wait to hang out with you later, just do something instead of nothing. So remember, guys, intimacy is not just about the physical connection is just as important to connect emotionally and mentally. Yes,
Alicia Larkey
I’m just smiling so big I love I just love you know, the these are all my sweet spots. So I love hearing this from you. I think a lot of the women and other people listening are gonna love to hear this from you. I think men need to hear this sometimes. So I just I really love that you’re sharing it. Sometimes people can think intimacy is just one of those areas, most often they think it’s physical. So I love how you’re reminding everybody that is actually kind of about all three of the areas mental, physical, emotional, and frankly, the fourth area is spiritual. I just think it’s super important. So
Matt Larkey
and this is me after years and years of experience and years and years of failure. Right? That’s that’s how you learn. So you know, if you’re younger listening to this, just learn from my mistakes. So like, like you said that, yeah, there’s action, there’s feelings. And then there’s the way we think of our relationships. Like, we have to know the difference between being in love and actually showing love. Love is a verb, meaning you have to take action. So maybe it’s learning your partner’s love language, like my wife’s love language is quality time. Mine is words of affirmation. Just because I love words of affirmation doesn’t mean that she needs those as much as I do. So if I’m giving her words of affirmation, and then pat myself on the back, but not making any quality time will that’s on me. Plus, I’ve got to be aware that any time spent with her does not necessarily equal quality time spent with her, right.
Alicia Larkey
Yes, honestly, a min to all that. It’s so good. And especially I like how you said that, like, just any time is not quality time. So I really like how you put that I think that’s a great tip. I really could sit here and talk about this for like five hours. So can we have a five hour podcast? I wish I wish I kind of wish we actually had a couple sitting in front of us right now so that we could see if this is resonating. With couples and those who who are listening. I’m sure it is. But I guess we’ll just have to settle for these two cats who are staring at us with our crazy headphones on and microphones in our faces looking like weirdos on a weirdo? Well, you’re a weirdo, but at least you’re my weirdo. No, but seriously, we would love if any of you are resonating with any parts of this episode. So far as it wraps up, where you please leave us a comment, hit that rating, give us a review. Or leave us a comment on our Instagram, letting us know what parts resonate or if something helps you if one of these tips that Matt is so generously sharing helps just just let us know in that feedback. And that way we know if it’s making you feel seen heard and validated. So
Matt Larkey
good cats. They’re very entertaining. Thank you laughing all the time. Sorry, all you dog people. Don’t be mad at me about this. Yeah, you better be careful. So you know, one of the thing I did want to share, it’s it’s very important to me personally, and you kind of alluded to it a little while ago. And it might resonate with some people, maybe not others, but it’s keeping our marriage based in faith. So for Alicia and I, it it gives us a higher purpose. I actually believe I was blessed to have Alicia as my wife, which makes me responsible for making this good marriage. So if I feel like it’s failing, it’s on us. And it feels like we’re not being grateful for that blessing that was given to us. Does that make sense?
Alicia Larkey
Yeah. And I you know, that’s just I mean, I’ve told you this personally a million times I just just one of those things that I super admire in you and in your convictions and your integrity and so I’m always super grateful for that. And also just want to say that I understand not everybody listening has the same relationship to fate that we do and that’s totally okay. But you can apply this to anything that you’re grounding yourself into again, it’s that this is super important and that there’s a reason why it’s super important. So okay, getting back to all that wisdom you’re sharing with us, Matt and thank you for sharing that that tip as well because it’s it is incredibly important in our marriage. But what else matters when you think of when it comes to what what it comes comes to take make a successful and good marriage.
Matt Larkey
Yeah. So I’d say the guys and I kind of touched on this in the last moments there, you know, guys or anyone struggling in their relationship, educate yourself on how to understand your wife or your partner, or, like I mentioned, you know, anytime does not equal quality time well figure out what is quality time to your partner, you know. So this is where I think learning your partner’s Enneagram type comes in. It’s such a big piece to the marriage puzzle. It’s made things so much easier for us. And everything makes so much more sense. I would definitely say that learning all of your Enneagram type all about it and understanding mine as well. It’s probably the biggest game changer in our marriage. I want to encourage everyone to not just learn their Enneagram type, but to find out everything about the conflict styles, and how they understand the other person in the relationship better. And what’s the other thing you’re always saying about our instinct, it’s the thing where mine is self preservation, and yours is one to one. What’s that called?
Alicia Larkey
That’s called this subtype. So yes, your subtype, it’s so important, especially in relationships, and in friendships, and in parenting, to know and understand your subtype or your partner or your friends, your kids subtype, it can be a game changer, I don’t want to go too deep into subtypes right now, obviously, I love that you’re bringing it up, though, because it is super important. But I’m also excited because I do have a future episode on subtypes. And it’s such a massive topic area of the Enneagram. So I’m really excited to explain it deeper in the future. But I do want to give a quick explanation, since you did bring it up of what the three subtypes are just in case it does help somebody right where they’re at today, the three subtypes, these are so you have your Enneagram type. These are like the next context script of the three subtypes are self preservation, social, and one to one. So subtypes are like your basic survival instincts. And one of my favorite, my favorite websites, Crystal nose.com, puts it in and I’m gonna quote this, people all have these three instincts that govern them self preservation, which governs their need for survival, like essentials like food, water shelter, like that’s top of their survival instincts, then the next one is their social instinct. And this governs like their need to be part of a group or a community. That’s where they survive that and feel safest and and then there’s the one to one instinct, which governs our intimate relationships with our partner, or a friend or a family. And each of us has all three of these instincts. But there’s usually one that’s most dominant for us, like you were saying, self preservation is most dominant for you, one to one is most dominant for me. And then we have our secondary and we have that one that kind of gets kind of ignored, like mine is self preservation that gets ignored. And I have to work really hard to have that in, you know, yours is that one to one instinct. So it’s funny how ours are flipped. So our goal has to become to become aware of the most dominant instinct and the one that’s getting ignored and have to try to find a balance with all three of them, which, frankly, in turn, helps our relationships have more balance and peace, too. So
Matt Larkey
yeah, when I when I first found out that I was a self preservation nine, and you were a one to one to it, it was so validating to know there were other nines out there other people like me, who had that same dominant instinct, which was so different from yours, realizing other people process the world like me, made me feel so understood, it was kind of like I had a community. Not that I want to be part of that one, because I’m an introverted nine, but you know what I mean? Learning. So learning, but the core motivation of a nine is that I just want to protect the peace around me around us, I think really helped you understand my conflict style and motivation. And that made me feel so relieved and so validated for all those times I was trying to explain how I was feeling to you, but I didn’t fully understand it myself. Yeah, I didn’t necessarily and I didn’t necessarily have the words to explain it. So like, for example, me in the past, before I knew my type, I saw walking away during an argument as a way to avoid anything getting ugly. I needed time to call myself because I didn’t want to feel anger towards you, or from you. And I used to interpret the intensity of an argument, or you yelling at me is that I’m hated or I’m disliked. So I saw me walking away, I saw it as a positive, but you not understanding that my core motivation was to try to keep that piece. You instead you saw it as like apathy or just not caring at all. And like, apathy is maybe worse than anything else in a relationship.
Alicia Larkey
Yes, apathy is a relationship killer. So it would make me scared frankly, when I when I was like, wow, you can walk away from this because it felt like kind of like you didn’t care about my point of view. Whereas you know, I’m very, I my, I let my emotions live on the outside of me. So just us not knowing our types at that time, made us think it was something else. Whereas it wasn’t. Now I realize you just needed time to process and connect to what you were feeling and thinking. And I’m so glad I learned that and figured it out because it gave me tools so that I’m also respecting your boundaries. So
Matt Larkey
yeah. And to you, it looks like I don’t want to resolve anything, you know, or at least I don’t want to resolve it right, then, like, I just want to walk away from it. So it probably felt to you like, he didn’t care, which I know, that’s, that’s the most painful thing for you. So it makes you feel like I don’t love you or that I don’t care about you, or that you weren’t worthy of my time to fix whatever the argument is about. So we can get back to feeling that love. And then vice versa, me understanding your conflict style and motivation as a two, that your core motivation is feeling loved and being appreciated. And that you needed to process things in that moment in the present. And that being peaceful at that moment is the furthest thing from your
Alicia Larkey
mind. Exactly. Call it out. It’s the truth. Yeah.
Matt Larkey
So it helped me understand your desire to like really get into it, if you will, you know, why you were coming in so hot sometimes. You wanted and needed that resolution? Right, then you wanted to fix things so badly, but sometimes your method for getting into it, it just felt so intense to me, especially because you’re a verbal processor. And I am not. I’m guessing most nines are not?
Alicia Larkey
No, I definitely I definitely have a crown in verbal processing. Bingo. But I do I see. And this is exactly what I’m talking about, and why people could benefit so much, especially couples and learning about their types. Because now that you know you’re a nine and everything you just said is is golden to our marriage in both of us learning that. And now I get to know those things, too, which has become so helpful to me too, because I want to respect your way of processing. And you know, and we don’t get it right, every day, we don’t we mess up. And we still get it wrong. But we we do care. I feel like what the Enneagram tools did for us was help us care more, even when we get it wrong. We’re usually when you get it wrong, you just kind of fall into the resentment game or the blame game or, you know, oh, and I cannot wait to do a full podcast on what resentment and blame do in a marriage coming up, like next month. But man, it just it’s so helpful.
Matt Larkey
So and you know, not not having that peace and quiet for me to process, what’s happening through my brain, not having time to think and figure out what I’m feeling in that situation was just so frustrating. And like, I would feel so jealous that you could access exactly what you were feeling and needing to say like so quickly. But after I learned about you being here, too, and understanding that you filter the world through your feelings in your heart, it felt less like an attack. I finally understood that you weren’t necessarily coming at me, but moreso needing to get out what was on your heart. Yeah, but obviously for me as a nine it just felt like the opposite of peace, especially because I love it because I needed that downtime instead of processing immediately. So not talking about things and letting Cooler heads prevail. That felt more like a resolution to me, it felt like that’s the smart decision to make right now.
Alicia Larkey
Yeah, gosh, that makes so much sense. And even how you’re saying it felt like the opposite of peace. So it wasn’t helpful to you and it didn’t look like I’m trying to help the marriage and and even kind of what you said about letting Cooler heads prevail, it like just makes so much sense to me in these years since I’ve learned that and after I spent the time reading and learning everything I could get my hands on about nines and I still love doing that. And um, you know, my friend Kelsey has has the healthy nine club on Instagram, it’s healthy and then number nine and then club you guys gotta go there if you’re a nine, especially. But I just like I love that you’re sharing this perspective. I think it’s something that can really help other people in relationships, especially other types like yourself or withdrawn types, nines, and twos, all of it.
Matt Larkey
Yeah, I certainly hope so. Because it was only after understanding how our types that were so different. And why I felt the way I felt you felt the way you felt that it all were like really started to make sense to me and holding on, I think to you, too. So it wasn’t about the two of us being against each other in an argument. It was just that we needed to learn each other’s conflict style and motivation in a way that we never had before. So the difference now in our conflict, conflict resolution is that we have so much more grace for each other. There’s more determination to bring us back together sooner and to feeling feeling good again feeling that love again. So I don’t feel the need to walk away because I’m not hurt by the intensity anymore. I don’t fear it escalating and causing permanent damage. like I used to, because you’ve worked on that part of yourself. I’ve worked on that part. And you’ve learned how that affected me and my ability to hear you. Oh,
Alicia Larkey
I love what you just said I learned how something affected you and, and your ability to then hear me harsh. That’s so, so helpful to other couples.
Matt Larkey
Yeah. And I think same thing in for you. You don’t you didn’t you don’t feel that need to be so intense anymore. When that internal clock starts ticking, like, oh, gosh, she’s about to walk away. Here we go. Which that just that escalated your feelings, you know?
Alicia Larkey
Yes. Oh, my gosh, exactly. A good way to put it, it escalated my feelings because I just was like, he’s about to walk away. And I and then I’m going to be stuck with all these feelings. And it made me feel fear or escalation, like you said, just a different kind my, the escalation that affected me, when, especially when I could feel like you were about to leave the conversation. I hated that so much before there was resolution because gosh, as a two, I needed quick resolution, I needed to know that you still love me, you know, and we kind of call it the sandwich method for me, you know, the two pieces of bread and what’s in the middle. And that bottom piece is, you know that you’re upset with me about whatever the subject is. But that middle part is like, Hey, I still love you. And then that top piece of the bread like reconfirms the experience that you’re having, and that it’s a valid experience. So you do get to express that. And if it takes time for you to go process to come back and express that, it is so important to me that you do have that because I want that too. So like you can be mad at me, 100% for sure. But I just needed you to also tell me, Hey, Ben, I still love you. And that, what I have to know. And that’s kind of like what I have to know in that moment is so important to me, like, Hey, I’m really mad at you for XYZ, I still love you. But I’m upset about this thing right now. And frankly, I need some time to deal with it. So since we’ve learned that, like, I’m okay with that, and I’m good with that. It’s so it’s just like a gift that we have. And, you know, I still always that like this will be true until the day that I that I go off to see the good Lord, I still want to resolve the argument sooner rather than later at all times. But your feelings and your boundaries are valid, and they deeply matter to me. And I’m trying every day to get better at them. And, and to know that you need time. And then even if it used to feel like a rejection to me, and learning it was just part of your process. And not really just the outcome made has made it so much easier for me to sit with what I’m feeling at that time. So learning that about you, but generally about nines, and especially for anyone listening who is married to a nine, or is a nine, he was such a gift to me. And I hope it can be a gift to you to go kind of learn those things. And it takes a while like we’ve been doing this for years. And it’s it takes time to unlearn, especially for me as a to what I believed to be rejection and instead, learn that it’s just a part of your partner’s boundaries or kind of processing needs. You know, I think that’s a good way to put it. When you say,
Matt Larkey
Yeah, I’m so happy that you know, that you learned that we both learned that because you know, I was never trying to reject you. But I definitely hadn’t understood what that was like for you. So you know, I’m so glad we just we did that work, we put in the work. And from my side of things, when I started learning that you needed to know I wasn’t going anywhere. But also at the same time, I could honor the part of me that needed time to process what I was feeling, then we could come to a resolution faster in a much less destructive way, obviously. So that’s one I think one of the biggest ways that Enneagram has changed our marriage, in my opinion.
Alicia Larkey
Yeah, I like how you said that, too. I think a lot of couples could resonate with this. If you want to, like figure out resolutions in a less destructive way, as Matt put it, learning your type. And working on yourself is the way to do that. It’s exactly why I wanted to share this podcast. And when I’ve talked to friends through the years, and especially about marriage, and you know, as a life coach and a marriage coach, I get it, I get to hear this in my practice. And it’s exactly what I want to share with people. This is such a tool and there are so many possibilities for you, the person listening right now to have a healthier, more stable, more fulfilling relationship with your partner, a more fulfilling marriage. People need to know this and they need to know that they deserve this and that they’re honestly their partner deserves it from this too. So if you’re listening today and you’re like I wish my partner would do this or do that or go listen to this or make the effort. Well start with you let it start with you. It’s proven you guys and hearing this what I’m going to frankly call fact based evidence from us a real couple who is really doing these things we shared we’re not just trying to blow smoke and sound smart and good. We really put in this effort Are, we really did spend the time to understand each other better, and figure out how the other person needs to be loved and wants to be loved, and also to take personal responsibility to fix the things that we weren’t doing. Well, now that’s super hard to come on a podcast. And admit, I know you would agree with him that with that rash
Matt Larkey
is going out to other people. Yes, I
Alicia Larkey
did. I not tell you that. Drink block, anybody we know from listening. But I think it’s I honestly am really happy that we share this because I think people need to hear this from real people. And from happy people, because there’s just so much information out there that’s negative about marriage. And frankly, I get sick of it. So that way we could to we can celebrate our soon to be 25 year wedding anniversary, who would as a couple who has a strong and passionate marriage, because we continue that growth. But again, the key is we continue it as individuals. And then also together year after year, it doesn’t just end with doing the work one time or like, I’ll hear some people say, oh, yeah, I went to therapy for this years ago and thought it was fixed. Well, we’re humans. So we’re always growing. And knowing our Enneagram type keeps bringing us back to those parts of us that we know we got to kind of pay attention to those are our weak parts, or those strengths that we’re going to get to share. I know I’m so grateful for all the gifts of a nine. I mean, I’m so grateful. And I know that you feel so grateful for the things I bring in my Tunis and my wing three nests. And yeah, and we continue to learn and put in the effort we build our family up. And frankly, one of the things that I’m most proud of, and I know you’ll talk about this too, because we actually just had a super powerful, sweet conversation this morning about breaking generational patterns. Yeah, and I know that that is one of the things that the two of us separately just as two separate humans really wanted in our lives and wanted for our children. So as a couple that we really make the effort to break some generational patterns that maybe our parents didn’t get right, even though we’d love our parents and, and they’re great. And they did their best, but like we get to break those things, and we have in our kids have, what would you call it reap the benefits of that. So it’s possible when two people are committed to working on themselves individually, it makes the marriage easier. So I don’t know, I just feel so strongly that the Enneagram is the roadmap that frankly taught us how to do this. And that keeps us kind of coming back when we get off track. I believe everybody out there can do this too. Mmm, no. I agree. Yeah. Okay. Okay, so we’re running out of time. I know, we had like 27 more little things on our list to talk about today. So we’re running out of time. So unfortunately, I got to say bye to you for this podcast. Because, frankly, to you guys, Matt’s an introvert. And so this has probably been a lot or
Matt Larkey
No, but you got you got me rolling. I’m good.
Alicia Larkey
I love that. But for those of you who are listening, don’t end the episode yet. Don’t leave yet. Because I just I want to tell you how you can start this work. And especially if you’ve been listening to us talk, you really need to know your partner’s Enneagram type conflict styles, subtypes, all those things that I’m going to be sharing in this podcast. It’s why I built the podcast. You can also go to my website and read in the blog area and all other aspects of my website and start to learn these things. Now. You can pick up Enneagram books, you can listen to our next episode, by next episode. Matt, will you come back? Yeah, I think I need you to come back. Because we did have like 20 More things we wanted to share Campbell You We didn’t even get to the parenting. So I really Yeah, I know more. Yeah, I think that one’s really going to help people. And especially I really want to share your perspective, you were so good at what you shared today. And I want people to be able to implement the strategies that we’ve used. So thank you so much, honey, for sharing your heart today and your perspective on what makes a marriage good and being honest about ours and how we keep growing and learning. And just what you share today is so valuable, not just to me, getting to hear it but to everybody listening. So thank you so much, my love.
Matt Larkey
Thank you, hon. You’re so welcome. I really did enjoy it. And I hope that at least some of what we said I hope it can just help someone out there. So I’m gonna go ahead and take my nap now.
Alicia Larkey
Well, you do enjoy a good nap. So I know you’re just kidding. But seriously, thank you so much, honey, I love you. Okay. So back to all of you who are listening, we’re not done with Matt, as he just said, or hearing his insight on marriage, parenting, intimacy, all aspects of relationships. So he is going to come back now for part two of this conversation. And we’re just getting started. So if you enjoyed today, make sure that you have subscribed, and that you’re going to come back because I really do want to get into the trenches of parenting, and how the Enneagram really transformed our family and the relationships we have with our three kids. It’s much stronger, it’s more supportive. And we’re gonna talk about some other things that you frankly, don’t want to miss. So but just please, please go and find out where you can learn your Enneagram type. In fact, you don’t even need to find out, I’m going to tell you where to find out, there is a great place to take a free Enneagram test, I am going to leave it in the show notes so that you can find it. It’s on cloverleaf, and I love their tests the most I really like I said in episode one, by the way, if you have not listened to Episode One, go back and listen, because that’s a great place to start. Specially if you haven’t taken an Enneagram test yet, or you’re new to the Enneagram. Go ahead and go to Clover leaf.com. And that is where you can take a free Enneagram test. And like I said, we’re going to link it in the show notes below, I really want you to have this opportunity to start growing in your relationship. And again, it doesn’t matter if you’re at the stage of dating you, you get to learn about yourself first and put any effort on yourself, which is going to impact your relationship, it’s going to improve your conflict style. It’s going to help you understand how you navigate your fears and your motivations. So I really want to help you with that. And if you want to take it a step further and not only learn more about these things I’ve mentioned your conflict style, your subtypes, your motivations, your fears, and just really get to learn more about yourself and dig way deeper than just what an Enneagram test provides than just learning about the basics of your type. I can help you understand not only yourself, but your partner too. So you can reach out to me, for couples coaching, you can reach out to me for individual coaching. As I said, I’m a certified life coach and Enneagram marriage coach and I can help you apply a customized approach so that your two types are blending better together. And you’re understanding each other more and having more grace for each other. And some of the other things that Matt and I mentioned here today. And frankly, you’ll be able to navigate hard conversations with more ease, which helps you yourself. So you can reach out to me by my email, Alicia larkey@gmail.com. I’m gonna put that in the show notes below. And, you know, you can go to my website, I have a freebie on my website. It’s a it’s an Enneagram typing guide. And it’s right there just waiting for you if you want to get started. I think again, you guys please dig in to this the way that Matt and I did. You deserve all of this. You deserve the growth and you deserve the joy and the happiness and the fulfillment and the contentment. You deserve to have the goodness in your relationship that we talked about today. So get in there and make that efforts. And don’t forget to subscribe, because you are not gonna want to miss part two of my interview with Matt next week on the Enneagram girl podcast. Thanks, Y’all have a great day. Thanks for listening to the Enneagram girl podcast. I’d be so thankful if you’d leave a rating and review in your favorite podcast player. And subscribe to stay updated when each new episode drops for full show notes and resources of the episode has to Enneagram girl.com See you next time my friends.
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